Curse

Mr_Cynical · Apr 22, 2007, 03:45 AM // 03:45

/semi-signed

Just add them to the Scroll Trader (like Insignia with the Rune Trader). Problem solved.

Series · Apr 22, 2007, 06:18 AM // 06:18

/signed passionately (to add these to an existing trader)

People say this is a title you can buy? Yeah, when you unlock every single elite skill in the game. So either you captured them all previously or unlocked them with balthazar faction... i see NO problem like this. Normal people are still going to have to unlock them with sig of capture if they want skill hunter. But for, say, that one hard to cap elite, unlock it with faction and use the tome... that's gonna be the main use right there. Sure, you could BUY the title, but only if you captured em all previously, unlocked em all, AND on top of that, are willing to spend a lot more than you would normally (1k for sig of cap, elite tomes could be set at 3k min or so) so that if you want to be a big shot and "buy" the title as you people put it... well... that's a LOT of buying there buddy.

legion_rat · Apr 22, 2007, 01:58 PM // 13:58

/signed for traders

non elite skill 1k
elite skill 5-10k
the non elites because thats how much it would cost you anyway at the skill trainer. The elites should be higher but not nuts. As for people wanting to sell them to other players. You still can. But you wont be able to scam and get 20k for something not worth 20k. Its just a skill.

as for the people arguing that low levels will have elites. this already happens. Start in pre searing leave at level 2. get a run to droks. Buy sig cap. go to rankor. add lvl 20 henches. kill the bosses outside. YAY i have SS!!! Now with my droks armor and SS i go back to ascalon for some arena fun. I have seen lvl 8's that are ready to ascend. So what if my lvl 5 ele can have searing flames.

~the rat~

vergerefosh · Apr 22, 2007, 02:47 PM // 14:47

If there's an Elite available at the end of Prophecies, which you've already managed to unlock on one char, and you make a new one and want to get that skill, it's asking a lot to go through Prophecies to reach the RoF and maybe go through the missions just to get it if it's possible, when there's the alternative of using a tome.
Everyone complaining about "buying" the skill hunter title, there's still a lot of effort involved. To be able to use the elite tomes you still need to have capped the elite on at least one char, and, whilst that may be easy for some, for others it's quite difficult.
Alternatively, the skills have to unlocked using balthazar faction, and with 3k Balth for a skill, and over 400 elites, that's a lot of Balthazar faction, which most more casual PvE players probably won't have.
It's not "buying" a title. If someone wants to get a skill on a char and the skill has been previously unlocked, what's so bad about buying a tome to get it? The elite tomes will cost more than the CapSig, and effort will have gone into unlocking the skill, so it's not cheapening it at all.

Especially with some skills, as I know several people who dislike factions intensely, but need an elite from far in that they've gained previously on one of their other chars, and so have to grind through the slow boring Factions storyline to get there. They'd probably quite happily pay 3-5k or whatever to buy an elite tome to get that skill so that they wouldn't have to do that

Dasanko · Apr 22, 2007, 03:08 PM // 15:08

/signed

These should really be traded at the Rare Scrolls Trader (maybe change that name slightly), and, if any, also consume 1 skill point per use.

Seeing how they only provide you with skills that have already been unlocked, and how in most cases you'll be paying the time saved by coughing up some extra cash, there really isn't much to be held against such a petition, other than people aiming to sell them for abusive prices or whine (pointlessly) about the elite skill hunter title. The only way it'd help you gain it, would be that you had already unlocked all elite skills, whether through PvP or capturing them on PvE. Still, you'd be paying way more than by following the "standard" procedure of capturing them, should you want to have that title in different characters.

It would still act as a "gold sink", yet a time saver for people who don't want to spend a good chunk of time in order to get some specific builds on different characters.

MithranArkanere · Apr 22, 2007, 05:53 PM // 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_Cynical

/semi-signed

Just add them to the Scroll Trader (like Insignia with the Rune Trader). Problem solved.

That would be more than enough.

People selling 'to asy to get elites' are not against this, are against Elite Tomes.
They shoud open a thread to have them removed.
Traders just make prices fair. And only scamers want unfair prices.
Now.... who cares if you manage to unlock and buy Jagged Bones from the start?
Would you go back and make all the mission in normal mode again once you get it? No.

Geting those elites won't be free.

Gathering 10k i still more time consuming than capturing an elite.

I have already seen people spamming trying tome offers with riducuous prices.
With ridiculos, I mean 15k for non elite or 50k for elite, of course, no one bught that, but they still spam the offer.

bilateralrope · Apr 23, 2007, 09:13 PM // 21:13

There is another problem I foresee if we don't get a trader, the unavailability of the cheaper tomes. Eventually some of those tomes will become oversupplied because they are for the unpopular classes. This means their price will drop considerably, and the sellers will feel it too much hassle to sell them so they will just get merchanted. Now along comes a player who wants one of those tomes and they either have to pay an inflated price to the one person selling them, or they can't find a seller. I've had this happen to me with both greens and weapon mods (both max stat) when I wanted them, and I see no reason why this won't happen to tomes.

However since a trader keeps a stock of them, the unpopular tomes will always be available to people wanting them, making the unpopular classes even cheaper to setup in PvE.

Ozric · Apr 23, 2007, 10:26 PM // 22:26

/notsigned

Used to be in order to cap an elite you had to fight your way to a boss and activate your cap sig while the elite owning boss was using the skill.

Now you simply have to buy a silly Tome from another player, and that's still not easy enough for you? The game is watered down enough already.

MithranArkanere · Apr 23, 2007, 11:22 PM // 23:22

I have already told you.

You are against tomes, not traders, traders don't do that.
Traders balance market.

If you want tomes removed, make another thread.

Master Ketsu · Apr 24, 2007, 05:40 PM // 17:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

You are against tomes, not traders, traders don't do that.
Traders balance market.

/agreed. Pretty much everyone on here that has /unsigned so far hasnt provided a reason why their should be no trader, but is instead bitching about how tome's ruin the length of their obtained E-penis by grinding for the skill hunter title.

If you have a good reason why we shouldnt have a trader to keep players from ripping each other off, state it. But if you want to complain about the existance of tomes themselves you need to start your own damn thread.

Yawgmoth · Apr 24, 2007, 06:56 PM // 18:56

/signed!

The addition of tomes means a need to sacrifice up to 20 storage slots if i'm constantly finding them. I know there are people that would buy them but wasting hours on WTSing tomes is unacceptable.

Dougal Kronik · Apr 24, 2007, 07:17 PM // 19:17

/signed

You still need to have the skill unlocked on your account either by capping of Faction for an Elite.

No reason not to have a trader to regulate the price and have an easy method of selling/buying Tomes.

Ama Seraphim · Apr 24, 2007, 07:37 PM // 19:37

/signed

Would be nice to have regular tomes buyable from a trader, would be a better place to sell them also instead of a merc.

tyche7 · Apr 24, 2007, 08:18 PM // 20:18

/signed
makes sense to me and sounds nice. I agree with having everything but collector's items merch-able.

Skye Marin · Apr 24, 2007, 09:35 PM // 21:35

I'll agree with this with a couple of points to make:

-The normal tomes need to have a bottom selling price of 1k at the trader. Any less would be silly.
-The Elite tomes need to have a 3k bottom price at the traders, although I would imagine the actual price would hover around 5k-15k, depending on profession.

I'd be really happy to see this as it would cut down on a solid portion of trade spam, and would give a solid baseline to price the tomes. Remember that, with traders, some gold is steadily being taken out of the game because the traders buy low and sell high. This is always a good thing.

Remember that all skills learned from the tombs need to be previously unlocked on the account. For all those claiming that you need a skill point for your cap sigs, remember that for every tomb used, at least 1k or 3k faction was used previously. Also, when you cap or get a skill from a trainer, you're saving yourself from earning that faction in the first place.

bilateralrope · Apr 25, 2007, 12:03 AM // 00:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skye Marin

-The normal tomes need to have a bottom selling price of 1k at the trader. Any less would be silly.
-The Elite tomes need to have a 3k bottom price at the traders, although I would imagine the actual price would hover around 5k-15k, depending on profession.

Um, why ?

I only see the tome prices going below 1k for skills on unpopular classes, making those classes much cheaper to setup. Also because the skill trainers sell at 1k per skill/cap sig that means that while the price is sitting below 1k, you have a much higher demand than if the price was at 1001 gold. This will keep the price above 1k except on the really unpopular classes, making them a bit more attractive to setup.

However without the traders when the price of a tome dips below some value, it stops being worth selling, and the supply of them dries up considerably as the sellers merchant them instead. So if a class is unpopular enough, it becomes very difficult to buy tomes for them at anywhere near a reasonable price.

Then again, I won't mind ANET setting upper and lower limits on the tome prices at the traders. The only thing I will have a problem with is if the lowest price the trader will buy your tomes for is less than the merchant price, because traders start off at the lowest price meaning it will take far too long for the traders to stock up.

MithranArkanere · Apr 25, 2007, 12:44 AM // 00:44

You can't buy rare scrolls for under 800g and you get at least 400g when selling them.

This would be the same. No one would buy a normal tome for more than 1k, and traders would offer you at least 500k. Better than nothing.

I think we should wait a bit to see how prices evolve in a few days or weeks, and then set prices in traders based on that data.

Series · Apr 25, 2007, 02:52 AM // 02:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Ketsu

/agreed. Pretty much everyone on here that has /unsigned so far hasnt provided a reason why their should be no trader, but is instead bitching about how tome's ruin the length of their obtained E-penis by grinding for the skill hunter title.

If you have a good reason why we shouldnt have a trader to keep players from ripping each other off, state it. But if you want to complain about the existance of tomes themselves you need to start your own damn thread.

QFT! GW needs more traders. That's one of the best things about GW... at any time, you can check the market values of stuff, plus it keeps prices from going too low.

Skye Marin · Apr 25, 2007, 11:59 AM // 11:59

The worth of a normal tome is about:
-1k,
-plus the cost of one skill point,
-plus the ability of learning a skill before finding the trainer that teaches it,
-minus the cost of having the skill you want already unlocked on the account.

Demand may not be as high for these compared to the Elite tombs. but they are definitely useful to most people. Learning skills is one of the largest gold sinks in the game. Introducing a trader that would allow you to buy for less than 1k would take away the potentcy of that.

The worth of an Elite tome is about:
-1k
-plus the cost of one skill point
-minus the value of earning 5k exp from capping the skill yourself
-minus the cost of having the skill already unlocked
-plus the cost of having to go out, beat the boss, and cap the skill.

These will always be in demand. A trader just makes sense to keep prices fair and spam down.

freekedoutfish · Apr 25, 2007, 12:10 PM // 12:10

The tomes are intended to incourage trading amoung players. If they added a merchant to sell or buy from, then it removes that purpose.

The only thing that frustrates me, is that these tomes arent worth much. Eventually you wont be able to sell a tomb for more then 900g - 2k at the most. You can make that much after just one run in HM and selling items to the merchant.

Their not exactly really expensive items to trade, so I dont quite get where Anet was coming from using them as trade items. It seems a big gimicy to me.

They could have added something that would have a bit more value - but then we already have greens - so why did we need tomes?